5 daysago -/u/Mod_Kieren-Direct link
Hey all, wanted to start a casual discussion about ChargeScape - we see lots of feedback here about disliking it. We want to learn and figure out a better approach for future.
Why do we do charges?
There are several main reasons we have offered charges in the way we have recently:
- We want charges to add 'cost' to using powerful items (similar to arrows/runes). This creates space for free to use items which are less powerful.
- We want unique common items to drop in drop tables that aren't merely alchables or skilling resources.
- We want drops which will encourage longer term engagement with a piece of content.
- Corruption is OK because it still encourages you to acquire a large quantity of the charge item.
We believe these are the problems
This is a mix of things we've heard you all say and things we also think:
- It feels really bad to use charges when you should be saving up for corruption. It's a poor trade off which puts you off using the equipment until it is corrupted.
- It takes so long or costs a bunch to just obtain the equipment and yet that still isn't enough. It feels bad to not get the full benefit straight away.
- It's a constant burden to have to check how many charges your item has left and even worse if you discover mid raid that you've just used your last charge.
- There's a desire to move on from content and feeling compelled to have to go back constantly is frustrating. This is primarily an ironman concern, since mains can generally just buy from the GE.
I think its interesting that it seems arrows/runes are way more palatable. We've discussed that and think that is largely down to how available these things are, they're well established and available from many sources, skilling included.
What can we do to help with this
Mod Rice has came up with an idea I and others think is awesome. It's not the solution for everything but should help. We'd love to hear your ideas for solutions on any of the points in general.
- The core idea is that using/adding charges will still contribute to the corruption cap.
- For example, if an item costs 1000 'shards' to corrupt. If you apply and use 100 charges ten times, it'll corrupt anyway.
- This removes the awkward trade off between saving up for corruption or using charges immediately.
We also could look at improving QoL and accessibility of charging items. It's way better to do it quickly from the inventory than have to go to ToB to charge a scythe - regardless of the world building benefits.
We want to get this right for rewards in future content and it is on us to find a solution that players find more palatable whilst still considering the long term needs of the game. I don't think we can go on doing more and more charge items in the way you keep telling us you dislike!
Let's have a discussion in the comments - hit us up with your thoughts and questions, Mod Rice and I at least will respond where we can :)
Thanks,
Mod Kieren
5 daysago -/u/Mod_Kieren-Direct link
Hey all, wanted to start a casual discussion about ChargeScape - we see lots of feedback here about disliking it. We want to learn and figure out a better approach for future.
Why do we do charges?
There are several main reasons we have offered charges in the way we have recently:
- We want charges to add 'cost' to using powerful items (similar to arrows/runes). This creates space for free to use items which are less powerful.
- We want unique common items to drop in drop tables that aren't merely alchables or skilling resources.
- We want drops which will encourage longer term engagement with a piece of content.
- Corruption is OK because it still encourages you to acquire a large quantity of the charge item.
We believe these are the problems
This is a mix of things we've heard you all say and things we also think:
- It feels really bad to use charges when you should be saving up for corruption. It's a poor trade off which puts you off using the equipment until it is corrupted.
- It takes so long or costs a bunch to just obtain the equipment and yet that still isn't enough. It feels bad to not get the full benefit straight away.
- It's a constant burden to have to check how many charges your item has left and even worse if you discover mid raid that you've just used your last charge.
- There's a desire to move on from content and feeling compelled to have to go back constantly is frustrating. This is primarily an ironman concern, since mains can generally just buy from the GE.
I think its interesting that it seems arrows/runes are way more palatable. We've discussed that and think that is largely down to how available these things are, they're well established and available from many sources, skilling included.
What can we do to help with this
Mod Rice has came up with an idea I and others think is awesome. It's not the solution for everything but should help. We'd love to hear your ideas for solutions on any of the points in general.
- The core idea is that using/adding charges will still contribute to the corruption cap.
- For example, if an item costs 1000 'shards' to corrupt. If you apply and use 100 charges ten times, it'll corrupt anyway.
- This removes the awkward trade off between saving up for corruption or using charges immediately.
We also could look at improving QoL and accessibility of charging items. It's way better to do it quickly from the inventory than have to go to ToB to charge a scythe - regardless of the world building benefits.
We want to get this right for rewards in future content and it is on us to find a solution that players find more palatable whilst still considering the long term needs of the game. I don't think we can go on doing more and more charge items in the way you keep telling us you dislike!
Let's have a discussion in the comments - hit us up with your thoughts and questions, Mod Rice and I at least will respond where we can :)
Thanks,
Mod Kieren
5 daysago -/u/Mod_Kieren-Direct link
Originally posted bystopcopium
If the benefit is big, like Blood Fury healing 6% effectively, it’s almost warranted to have charges. But if the benefit is negligible, not really necessary.
We’re fine with Trident/Magic using runes since that’s how it was from the start, but for melee gear, you should get a big benefit if you want to add charges (ie. Uncharged scythe to Charged Scythe).
However, there should always be a good active way to maintain said charges. For example, if the only way to get Zulrah Scales was Sacred Eel fishing, it would be complete ass until you add Zulrah.
Likewise, if you could only mine Ancient Essence to upgrade imbued heart and Muspah didn’t exist. I think Muspah went a little too generous because the essence is basically worthless and could very well not exist due to how much is pushed out per kill.
People also like the idea of permacharge as a huge cost.
I think everything you've said is fair - it'd be obnoxious if the power of the item doesn't really justify needing charges.
5 daysago -/u/Mod_Kieren-Direct link
Originally posted byPeaceBear0
I gotta say I like the idea. You're basically making the true cost of the item base cost + corruption cost except that you're allowed to use it before paying the full corruption cost. You get a really satisfying feeling twice, once when you get the drop and again when you get enough to corrupt it.
It might be awkward for players that use the ge if they're used to selling and rebuying their gear and that might reset the corruption progress, but that's not any worse than what they have now.
Are you thinking of applying this to existing items or just future items? What about items that don't currently corrupt like crystal armour or blood fury?
One outcome is we could absolutely go back and apply it to suitable items. Plenty of stuff to work out though if we were to do that.
Personally not 100% sure on the idea of corrupting currently not corruptable stuff - as long as it has the right cost I don't think it's a big deal. Normally corruption costs quite a bit, probably more charges than most players probably ever use!
5 daysago -/u/JagexRice-Direct link
Originally posted byPeaceBear0
I gotta say I like the idea. You're basically making the true cost of the item base cost + corruption cost except that you're allowed to use it before paying the full corruption cost. You get a really satisfying feeling twice, once when you get the drop and again when you get enough to corrupt it.
It might be awkward for players that use the ge if they're used to selling and rebuying their gear and that might reset the corruption progress, but that's not any worse than what they have now.
Are you thinking of applying this to existing items or just future items? What about items that don't currently corrupt like crystal armour or blood fury?
It's the early stages of the idea so we're still gathering feedback. I think many of us on the team feel that adding it retroactively to other "Corruptible" items makes sense if we're doing it going forwards. Part of that conversation probably will involve "Were there any items that could have been corruptible that weren't made that way?" but it's not easy to give an answer off the cuff.
It's a delicate conversation because when we ask that question it touches on a lot of elements outside of the scope of just the items themselves. Are we going to ruin the gp/hr of a piece of content? Are we going to devalue/deprecate non-charged items that shouldn't be devalued? That's not to say it won't happen, but that there will probably be many case by case conversations. Sorry if the answer is a bit of a cop out, but in summary, we'll probably look into it!
5 daysago -/u/Mod_Kieren-Direct link
Originally posted by0rinx
The main reason I hate everything having charges is I have to start thinking if what I am doing is getting a big enough return to pay for the charges I am using instead of just putting on my best gear and picking what activity based on what I have the most fun doing.
Does corrupting an item just remove that for you? You still spend a lot but once it is done... it is done.
5 daysago -/u/Mod_Kieren-Direct link
Originally posted bySomeGuy1929
There is a runelite plug in that shows your current charges for many items on their inventory icon. It mostly works well but is a little buggy at times. Could something like this be built into the main game?
It would help alleviate the mistake of being mid-raid and running out of charges if you can see at a glance how many you have left simply by glancing at your inventory. Right-click examining and checking the chat box isn't a huge deal, but it can get annoying and is easy to forget to do
Yeah I think that's a really good suggestion, helps with the burden of worrying about it so much.
5 daysago -/u/Mod_Kieren-Direct link
Originally posted byWastingEXP
I believe there's a "you are almost at 6 hours, are you sure you want to enter the raid?" warning. (this could be rl, idk) could that be applied to low charge weapons?
Rice's idea is neat though. would definitely feel way better.
That's a great idea
5 daysago -/u/Mod_Kieren-Direct link
Originally posted byGraardors-Dad
Honestly I feel like the idea that you have charges to make free items more valuable never actually happens and just feels bad. If I buy a bis item I want to use my bis item everywhere. That’s why TBow feel so good because I can use different ammo if I want to mix things up I’m not gonna go use my bowfa and keep a 1.6 bill item in the bank. Also like the quiver I’m not using a Ava’s if I unlock a quiver
Think that's a fair point. The examples where this is true are outnumbered.
5 daysago -/u/JagexRice-Direct link
Originally posted byWastingEXP
I believe there's a "you are almost at 6 hours, are you sure you want to enter the raid?" warning. (this could be rl, idk) could that be applied to low charge weapons?
Rice's idea is neat though. would definitely feel way better.
Big fan of that. Wonder if there's anything more comprehensive we can do as well, maybe when withdrawing the item from bank, though that might get annoying.
5 daysago -/u/JagexRice-Direct link
Originally posted byRadu47
An anecdote to sum up a key issue with chargescape:
I get a slayer task for 209 bloodvelds. Yay. Off to meyerditch. But first to prepare my setup. So I then have to make sure:
my venator bow is charged with essence
my ash sanctifier with death runes
soul bearer / soul and blood runes
my bonecrusher with ectotokens (bloodvelds occasionally drop bones)
On top of:
vyre noble clothes
prayer, ranging potions
runes for alching
cannonballs for cannon
Already a complex enough trip for just one task. Now almost twice as complex. Naturally very easy to forget one single thing and have to run all the way back.
I think one of the big keys is keep it special. Charges shouldn't be for every item. If something has a mystical quality especially, give it charges, but otherwise ideally avoid it.
I think you're right on the last point. Charges aren't an everywhere thing, there is a time and a place for straight up upgrades to your account's progression, like a levelup. Just to give some insight into why they are so tempting to add though:
We generally think new content adds variety and fun to the game, and we want people to have a reason to go experience it. We know people will generally only do content if it furthers their account goals, such as leveling up or gaining gp.
We also know that people don't like to "sink" gp into an activity for 10 hours until they finally get a unique, but they like uniques to be rare so they're valubale. We also don't want to keep relying on devaluing skilling supplies, nor do we want to inflate the economy too much by introducing too many alchables.
Charged items, or the resource used to charge them, tick all of these boxes. They don't affect skilling supplies, don't introduce gp into the economy, can be dropped often and consistently...
This isn't to detract from your original point that it shouldn't be everywhere! Just a bit of transparency on how they're tempting because they really elevate the content they're attached to.
← More from Old School Runescape
Recent Old School Runescape Posts
A RuneScape themed Marriage Proposal
about 18 hoursago -/u/JagexSarnie
How do you negate his emotional attacks?
about 18 hoursago -/u/JagexSarnie
My wife just got a 74 xp beaver
about 18 hoursago -/u/JagexSarnie
You may not like it, but this is what peak Oldschool Runescape looks like.
about 18 hoursago -/u/JagexSarnie
